Pony dressage points amnesty

[follyfoot]

Hi,
just wondering if everyone is aware of this, as posted on the EA website - last month !!!!!

Pony Dressage- Grading Points
At the recent meeting with SDAs on 13/9 and the ADC meeting on 14/9 there was much discussion about Pony Dressage and how the numbers are low and ponies are grading up too quickly as a result.

The ADC is currently reviewing the grading system with any new system proposed for implementation about 1/1/11. This will give ample time for members and SDAs to comment on any changes. Initiatives being considered for the new grading system will address the problem for horses (and ponies) but OC’s are at the point of not being able to offer pony competition due to lack of numbers – this is not the case for horses. We are trying to accommodate organising committee’s who are obliged to run pony classes but are hampered by low participation. This is putting a strain on resources and funds at a time when neither are in abundance.

In the meantime the SDAs and ADC have agreed that there be an "amnesty" on grading points for ponies. This "amnesty" will become EFFECTIVE FROM WEDNESDAY 14/10/09 until such time as the review of the grading system is completed and a new system implemented. As a result of this "amnesty" ponies will remain at their current graded level until any new system is implemented. Riders would still be required to keep a record of their performances for qualification purposes. Alternatively all pony results need to continue to be entered on the National data base but without accruing any grading points.

[Lisel Dingley]

Oh damn!! Why didn't they pick the week before so we didn't get points from state??? Lol!

Oh well, it's such a joke. I have been involved in a few discussion re pony dressage points, and all ideas just make life way more complicated and instead of what i would like to see (no pony dressage at all! therefore if you can win a big horse class you deserve to get 6 points!!) the ideas just create confusion and more work for organisers and frustration for pony riders.

It's not hard - scrap the minimum height limit! End of story. If your pony is good, then it will place. If it's not, then it won't and you won't get points. Argh! What is so hard about that?!?!?!

[Lisel Dingley]

Originally Posted by follyfoot

We are trying to accommodate organising committee’s who are obliged to run pony classes but are hampered by low participation. This is putting a strain on resources and funds at a time when neither are in abundance

I think they just supported my idea.....Isn't the answer damn obvious! lol

[Phoebe]

Totally agree Lisel.

[SammyJo]

Well it looks like the sensible solution may be on it's way :-) Happy to have the points amnesty in the meantime.

[Lisel Dingley]

I am very interested to know what individuals have against scrapping the minimum height rule..... The only one i can think of that is going to come up is that it is not fair on the children who ride ponies. There are many places where children can compete and have a very fair go (competing against their own age etc), Pony Club, Interschool, and even associate comps. EFA Official is supposed to be tough. The excuse that it will discourage junior riders is a little silly because, a) there are places for them to compete and become experienced before moving to official, this is only applicable to a very very minute amount of riders, and b) i would think it can only improve our standard of ponies and junior riders by bringing them into line with our official horses (who are becoming very talented and possibly quite competitive by international standards!) therefore encouraging them to better themselves to be competitive in that company. In England young children on good ponies win at National level. I'm sorry to say but ours don't have a hope!!

Another one i thought of may be that it might encourage juniors to ride horses because they 'seem' to be more competitive than ponies. Well i guess that one is up to our pony breeders and trainers to actually start producing some international standard ponies, to show Australia what Dressage Ponies are all about! With numerous German Riding Pony stallions in Aus now i feel that this is much closer to happening, but if the height rule was to be scrapped it would only encourage them to get things happening.

Ok hope that sort of makes sense, but i really want to hear about the BAD things about scrapping the minimum height rule, i could write a book on the good things.... So tell me the BAD things!!!!!!!! Don't hold back!

[jords]

Well thats fantastic news!!!! As a Mum of a pony dressage kid, this has saved us a real headache. We have a pony who required to be downgraded when we brought him from Elemt to Novice as my daughter is only 11yo and not capable of riding at that level. Therefore we only had 30 points until they reached Elemt again. After competiting at a championship were they won both their Prelim tests, marvelous, however the only ones in it!!!! And gaining 12 points at that one outing with no competition, then having a great State Champs gaining 9 points, we were faced with a whole year in 2010 of either competing HC or only doing Associate tests. Not great fun for a competive 11yo. So this news is terrific for us as they are now able to compete at official comps and actually compete.

This brings me to the question do they compete against the big guys or should they be in Pony dressage? Well, I can say that there are aguements on both sides as Lesel points out. As a Mum of a little kid, we do go to PC and Interschool so she gets ring experience there against her own age. I must say that at the comps were we have competed and are the only ones or only a few in the class the first thing we do is compare %'s to the open field and see where they would have placed had they been able to ride in that class.

People then argue with me that this is not a fair comparison because "judges are more generous to ponies". I don't believe that this is the case or at least should'nt be. Judges should have enough experience to be able to see if a horse or pony is working correctly, through, soft and supple or racing and set in a frame.

Perhaps the EFA should consider that organisers have the discretion to hold the Pony classes only if there are sufficent numbers and if not the ponies are thrown in with the big horses. I know that there is a huge hole in the potential for the pony classes, with large numbers currently being enjoyed by PC dressage competitions and interschool comps. The EFA is not attracting these people to EFA Official comps, this certainly would not help pony numbers if they are in the open class, but its not happening anyway!!!!

We don't mind competing against the big horses but I do believe that at the *ed events they should be seperated as numbers are better and a true competion can be run. So Lesel, I guess I don't have any really strong arguements to support pony classes except at the large comps. Nonetheless, we are greatly releaved that we don't have to worry about restricting our competions and can go up the grades as my daughters expertise and skill develops (and her legs grow) and not because they have to.

[Lisel Dingley]

Hi Jords,

I'm sorry, you still have the problem of too many grading points as the amnesty was introduced after state champs........ That's exactly what i thought too until i checked the dates. My 4yo only first backed in Jan this year, did very few competitions but graded up to elementary after state champs. I can't argue too much cause she was still placing top 5 overall when comparing to the big horse classes when we had the same judges!!

The only problem with the 'discretion of the OC' rules is that they can do what ever they like, therefore what is the point of rules at all? I have seen this happen many times, particularly in advanced with Caleb last year, it was up to the discretion of the OC to run seperate classes or include me in the big horse classes. No one could really tell me the rules cause there were no set rules when it came to it as it was all up to their 'discretion', therefore for basically all (not every but almost all) competitions, no matter if they put me in the big horse class or left me by myself i won not a cent of prize money, no championships/prizes/rugs, not even a ribbon. Very very dissapointing.

Lisel

[jords]

Fortunately we are right for points. My point with competing in the open classes is exactly that, you compete. If you win on a pony in the open class you win. If you place, you place, so along with prize money and trophies you take the good with the bad. Many pony people argue that they cannot compete against the big horses. Well I say its better to compete than to win when you have no competition. If it is upto the discretion of the OC to run the pony class or to place the few entrants in the open classes then they must declare that these competitors are in for the prizes as well. We have to declare if we are going to ride HC before the class starts so the same has to be for them.

Judges and fellow competors should be informed that theses ponies are included in the class and then off we go. I cannot see what there is so much of an issue about it. We don't get any reduction to entry fees and its not pony competitors fault that they don't have more entrants.

Perhaps because there is now the amnesty more people will be out and about with their ponies and not in the same situation as before. Fingers crossed.

[Lisel Dingley]

Oh Jords, i'm sorry i am just incapable of counting to 60!! What a worry!

Take a look at the new EA rules that just came out - NOT HAPPY JAN!
- snaffle mouthpiece must be 10mm diam. - yes i very much like this one!
- curb mouthpiece must be 12mm diam - very much like this one too but this is IMPOSSIBLE. The only way you can get bits under 5 inch now is to buy riding pony hacky bits which are like wire. Otherwise you are looking at $300 plus for each bit to get them made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They haven't been made this thick for at least 5 years (and under a couple of hundred dollars). Lucky i have some old ones as i have some ponies with tiny little welsh heads and mouths even though they are quite large ponies. Actually im not even sure my thick ones are that thick - great. I better go measure them.
- "State dressage championships" - "it is up to the state to determine if ponies are to be included".

My lord, it just gets worse and worse.......

[rhi]

I find it wierd that they have made it a rule to have the double bits so thick... ponies mouths can only fit so much. I prefer to have thiner double bits on ponies, the big ones seem to take up their whole mouths! Mind you.. I'm speaking from experience of owning a 12hh welsh pony with a TINY mouth.

[Lisel Dingley]

Caleb (13.1hh but very small welsh head/mouth), like a lot of stallions, liked to suck back behind the bit and not go forward/over the back properly. Once i changed his bits to thick ones he improved so much it wasn't funny. I know this is just one horse, and every one is different, but i would think, if i was a horse, i would be more willing to come over the back and properly through and forward if i didn't have thin bits in my mouth which obviously are more severe than thick ones....?? That just always what i have thought.

But if we are talking very small, 22mm of bits in a tiny pony's mouth doesn't even seem possible! Yet 21mm of bits in an 18hh hefalump's mouth is quite fine and severe. These rules are a little silly i think!

[Lisel Dingley]

OK out of interest i just went and measured some of my bits, and this is what i found:

- Caleb's bit off his double - nearly 2cm (i said it was thick!) - 4 inch - very old
- Appley's snaffle - just 1cm (just) - 4 1/2 inch double jointed snaffle
- Tom thumb that i use on all the babies - 1cm and maybe a tiny bit (and it is very old, 4 1/2 inch i think)
- 4 inch curb bit that i bought last year - after 1 year of searching i bought the thickest i could find, and it is about 0.8cm!!

Interesting....