Saddles...again!

[mig]

Hey folks,

In a couple of months I'm hoping to upgrade my dressage saddle. So where else to get advice except here!

No matter what saddle it is, it will probably need to be padded/wedged/you name it due to high withers and some uneven muscle wastage behind the shoulders.

I have fairly narrow hips, longish legs (proportionally, that is), 5'6'' or 165ishcm tall. Average build otherwise. I am told I have long (again, proportionally) femurs!

I used to have an Isabel, which was too wide for me, it felt like I was sitting on a table! I liked the deep seat but usually opted for the smaller knee rolls as the bigger ones interfered with my long upper leg. I'm currently riding in my old wintec dressage, which feels too narrow in front (but ok elsewhere), not deep enough, but good knee-roll size. I have ridden in the maestoso and liked it, but it's outside my budget! Gus enjoyed this saddle too.

If you can think of anything that fits my fussy criteria... please let me know :) Thanks!!

[Sel]

I have a TB that had a very high wither and muscle wastage that was due to my Bates Isabel saddle. The only saddle that fit him when I changed saddles was a Childeric. I even had to use a pad under that until the muscles built up again. He is a very happy horse now and I can actually get him through from behind instead of him being disconnected.

Sel

[mig]

Oh dear.. sounds expensive!!! Lol. Thanks for your help Sel :)

I think his wastage may be long term damage, even when he's spelling and getting fat everywhere else, he doesnt get any weight behind his shoulders. Not sure what this means though...!

[Madeline]

I have had the same experience and bought a Childeric.
When Graeme Aitken Looked at my two horses - Holstein and OTTB he said NO saddle is going to fit those two!!
So I thought here we go, if buying one saddle isn t dear enough I will have to buy TWO!
But the Childeric fitted both and Boy is it nice to ride in.
The other half comented it is like good tyres on your car or good tools, if you are serious you need good stuff and hopefully a good saddle could last a very long time and if you spend a couple of hours a day (when it stops raining)
in it is is worth it.
I was able to find a 'reasonably new' used one so it wasn t quite as expensive but still twice what I had started out to think about spending.

[mig]

Hey Madeline,

I've ridden in your saddle :o Or at least I'm fairly sure I have. This was before the new panels etc. Not sure how to explain it, but it seemed really bulky in the front? Big knee rolls etc.

(Just trying to reassure myself I won't need to get a Childeric....:s)

[Schmerglatt]

Hi Mig,

Some people including me do find that the Childeric feel a bit like that and if you don't like big knee rolls it would definately feel like that. I have ridden in the one Madeline now has and I liked that one more than any Childeric I have ridden in.
I would have recommended the Stubben Maestoso but you have already tried it~ What about the Stubben Roxanne? It's about a grand cheaper and Sandale Saddlery have all the Stubben range.
If not have you seen an Anky saddle? They are very nice saddles too and would probably suit someone your height but because I am 5'`10 I found it a little small in the leg flap for me.
I personally ride in the Passier Grand Gilbert deep seat but they are expensive too like the Childeric~
Oh and you don't ahve to rob a bank for the Anky saddle either~~~

Hey Madeline,

I've ridden in your saddle :o Or at least I'm fairly sure I have. This was before the new panels etc. Not sure how to explain it, but it seemed really bulky in the front? Big knee rolls etc.

(Just trying to reassure myself I won't need to get a Childeric....:s)

[Sasha]

Hi Mig,
I absolutely love my passier Grand gilbert saddle - it's very comfy to ride in (doesn't have big knee rollers) but helps you maintain the correct position. I also have the stubben Maestoso which i really like - my boys are completely different in shape (ones a 17.3 fat WB and the others a daintly 16.2 compact TB) and the stubben fits my little tb perfectly and the Passier fits the WB perfectly!

I have a prestige doge which i no longer use as i sold the 18.2hh giant i bought it for - it too is very nice (wish i had another horse to use it on). They are expensive saddles but have a one piece tree which is designed to be remoulded into the shape of the horse you use it on. Felix (the giant) had wastage behind his shoulders so we got the saddle remoulded especially for him and it fitted like a glove. Prestige doge was the only saddle that could be remoulded over and over really easily to fit him perfectly without damageing the saddle. They are expensive though...

hope this helps the search for perfect saddle!

[Zephyr]

Hi Mig,
There's a really nice second hand Otto Schumacher for sale down at Elite Saddlery in Tamborine. Its in excellent condition, barely been used. I've never ridden in one, but a few of my friends have them, and they swear by them, and they all ride very nicely, so I assume the saddle is good for seat and position. They also say they fit nearly every horse they put them on. The saddle doesnt have massive knee rolls, either, and two of my friends who ride in one have long legs, and they don't look confined in that saddle.

Oh, I don't think it was horrendously expensive, either.

[Equine Elegance]

The Otto is a good possibility. It has quite a narrow seat (after riding in the Isabell), but not uncomfortable. Squigg doesn't have a big wither, but I've seen it work on several shapes of horses.

The list of saddles that I have been told will probably work on Rocky are: the Otto, the Amerigo Vega, the latest Anky and of course the darn Childeric which is the only one we've tried so far. Rocky has high wither and not a lot of muscle behind it. The other thing you could investigate is the Flair panels which can be adjusted for uneven muscle, or they have a pad (http://www.flair.uk.com/Korrector/korrector%20frame.htm) which you can use under the saddle.

[mig]

Thanks for the tip on the Anky.. I haven't seen one before, so I'll do a google search. Will check the horsedeals tack section too!

[mig]

Hey Sasha

I saw a prestige doge in horsedeals... it's a beautiful saddle... but like you mentioned, on the pricey side. Sounds like it's worth the money though :)

[mig]

Hey Zephyr,

Thanks for the tip on the Otto! Do you know if they allow test rides? Cheers

[mig]

Wow that pad looks pretty awesome!! Do they ever have problems with them deflating, I wonder? But a great idea nevertheless. EE, do you know if the price in $ is AU or US? Thanks

[Zephyr]

Not sure, you'll have to give them a call and ask?

[Equine Elegance]

The pad is the same concept as the Flair, except outside the saddle, so it's adjustable and I've never had a problem with Flair deflating. That is the Uk site, I'm not sure what the price is, but Graham might have them or be able to get them......

According to the Korrector page, Aitkens don't have them, but ring and ask. Or there is a saddlery in NZ that has them.
Yvonne & Barry Gausden
Horselands
PO Box 197
Silverdale
Auckland
New Zealand
Tel: 64 942 63401
Fax: 64 942 63401
Mobile:
Email: ybar@xtra.co.nz

[carolyn hadjigeorgiou]

I also owned a Stubben Roxanne and it was lovely till I had an accident and injured my tail bone. Couldn't sit trot without out pain, so went back into a Bates Isabel Werth ( no pain)

[Elite Equestrian]

Hi Mig,

Yes we do allow test rides. Just give us a call.

Danielle
Elite Equestrian

[Em Lambe]

Daring complete anhialation here...
Did you know that Bates saddles are made with the bolt in the head of the tree facing INWARDS? this means that no matter how much padding you have, it creates an instant pressure point? Princess and the Pea. This information I have from a leather worker (also rides) who has pulled many Bates saddles open and reversed this bolt. I would strongly suggest another option..
I also had a TB with 'camel hump' wither (he's now a police horse, bless him!) who had muscle wastage behind the wither. I did a heap of research online into saddle fitting (www.chirovet.com.au (http://www.chirovet.com.au) was a terrific website) before jumping into the new saddle/chiropractor roundabout.
I ride in a Trainer's Jessica - while it has big knee rolls, with your long thighs (very jealous!) it should actually help your leg position and open your hip joint. They are more suitable than some saddles in regards to width across the waist of the saddle, and are certainly deep enough in the seat. Another plus is the price - I've heard the comparison that for half the price of a Keiffer, if you only get 5 years out of one, it's still a bargain. I was recommended them by people who should know (breeders, trainers, coaches and the like - not mentioning any names) Plus a friend who rides in an Otto rode in it recently and mentioned a very satisfactory comparison.

[mig]

Hi Em

Thanks for the recommendation. How narrow (or wide) is the tree? Can you compare it to something for me? Just looked at the photo and it looks very wide, similar to the Isabel.

Cheers !

[Jo]

Hey Mig,
I recently bought a Passier Lennox for less that half price and it fits beautifully on my 17hh narrow TB. I had previously tried more expensive saddles eg childric but they just didn't suit.
The Passier - seems much narrower in the seat which I like!
The anky's I like but are supposed to be designed more for broader warmbloods.
hope this helps!

[mig]

Me again... Just looked at one of the articles on that website. It said that ideas such as cair/flair and changable gullets were good innovations (I'm thinking Bates here) so it looks like there's going to be comprimise whatever saddle I end up with.

[Helen...]

It said that ideas such as cair/flair and changable gullets were good innovations (I'm thinking Bates here) so it looks like there's going to be comprimise whatever saddle I end up with.

Yeah, was that the article on saddle fitting?

I know from msn convos that you aren't keen on the Innova, but I saw the Innova with the standard knee blocks and it looked sooooo nice. The rider was competing-she was riding a TB eventer, we had a very lengthy conversation on why chose it and what differences it did. She rode in about 6 but that one was what suited her and horsey best, she's a small rider, a little shorter than me and her TB is slightly finer than Bob. anyways, The extended ones look very bulky and restrictive, but the standard looks like it would give you a great seat and posi without being too restrictive.

Just food for thought. :D

There are so many out there. Just try all the ones you like :) Even if its 20 or so :p

[Em Lambe]

Actually, i just had a standard gullet in it, and used it on all 3 of my horses (still am) Al - my TB - is about 15.5hh except that his wither adds an extra 2 or 3 inches! So we're talking that horrible 'keel'. The standard gullet gave him heaps of clearance, although I did need to use a riser pad on him to level the saddle. I also found that using a gel pad with a cut back head in addition gave the saddle 'lift' all over to try to make his back a bit more level with the wither (does that make any sense?)
As for width across the waist of the saddle (for the rider) it's pretty good! i'm not very flexible through my hips and stuggle on wide horses, and i find the Jessica quite comfortable under my seat bones.
And the best bit is that they really make you sit up!

[follyfoot]

hi,
only just looked on here - my two bits is - try an ANKY !!!
I just bought one & think it's great. I sat in a lot of diff saddles at DWTS & the local saddleries - I really wanted a Kieffer as my old saddle is a Kieffer & is lovely, but was a bit disappointed with the new ones. The other one that felt nice was a Peter Horobin ( new one - can't think of the name) but it was about twice the price of the Anky & didn't feel any better, just similar.
The local Saddleworld then brought out the Anky & a couple of others that I rode in - Anky won hands down.
cheers

[mig]

Well after all that I've got a Kieffer Munchen on loan... second hand... and loving it! The cut-back head means that Gus's wither is catered for. My only concern (and it sounds so silly) is that the seat is really hard?! Is this just something I need to become accustomed to? Apart from that I am very happy with the saddle, and it fits both horses (Gus needs a riser pad but I think that's pretty inevitable) :)

[Zephyr]

Yeah, I always felt like I was sitting on a text book in the Kieffers! No padding. I guess you could rationalise it by saying you have to eat heaps of chocolate to increase the padding on your bum to make it more comfortable ;)

[mig]

I think I might just embark on that mission tomorrow Zephyr :) How timely !!

[Zephyr]

Pleased to help!! :)

[lucy]

Well after all that I've got a Kieffer Munchen on loan... second hand... and loving it! The cut-back head means that Gus's wither is catered for. My only concern (and it sounds so silly) is that the seat is really hard?! Is this just something I need to become accustomed to? Apart from that I am very happy with the saddle, and it fits both horses (Gus needs a riser pad but I think that's pretty inevitable) :)

so good to know that its not just me then,they are hard to others as well.That is the saddle that I have and it is the highest quality saddle i have ever owned, I had a ride in a friends isabel and fell in love so i am now saving again.just go's to show that we all have such diverse needs not to mention our horses backs' needs.

[Cathie Lambert]

I have to agree with the hard seat. I have a Keiffer jump saddle (I think it is an Aachen) where the seat is so hard. My Keiffer dressage saddle (Wein) is not as bad.

[mig]

That's interesting that you like the Munchen but also the Isabel... I hated my Isabel. Oh well we're all different :)

[Scooter]

My build is similar to yours and I found that on my horse that had an average to high wither, a Passier Grand Gilbert fitted both of us beautifully. It has both a deep seat and great position for longer legs. Cheers Scooter

[mig]

Thanks for that, Scooter! Unfortunately the Munchen is only on loan so I will continue on my quest... :)

[Orlaithe]

Trekker Master Dressage??

Have you thought of trying a treeless saddle? I've just bought one of these. Its lovely, puts me in a great position it is really soft in the seat also. Here my 3yo mare is modelling the trial saddle....
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/nicole5310/Master_1.jpg

I just LOVE it.

[Jayden]

Hi Mig,

Have you tried any of the Otto Schumacker's. I have ridden in the standard one.....(not sure of the name, dynamic profi opr something) and also the new-ish Dynamic T. It has a similar seat but it has exposed 3/4 length thigh blocks. The only saddlery I know that has one is Flying changes. If you liked the Passier Grand Gilbert, I know of a second hand one that is for sale.

good luck finding a saddle.

[mig]

Hi Orlaithe

Thanks for the suggestion. Due to weird withers/muscle wastage (very unique-backed horse!) I feel we need a saddle with a tree. I asked my saddle fitter a while ago about them (I think the idea is great) and he didn't recommend them for my pony :p

PS: Your girl is very pretty :)

[Orlaithe]

Your saddle fitter would have thought of the treeless saddles that sit above the spine(eg Barefoot London). This saddle has a gullet and is actually designed for high wither TB type. It simply hase nothing rigid along the spine just memory foam pannels that sit either side.

[Kirsti]

I just got a new dressage saddle for my wide wbx ash gelding. It was the Thoroughgood T6 with the wide gullet, I have had 2 rides and so far I am very happy, it has the synthetic price and it actually synthetic but looks so much like leather. It is really comfy too. Graeme came down and fitted it because it appears that Aitkens is the only stockist of the Thoroughgood Saddles in Australia. :)

[mig]

Hey Kirsti

Could you compare it to another type of saddle for me? They look pretty nice, and they are a nice price too :p

[Marisa]

I had 16.2h TB with high narrow wither. I used Caprilli dressage on him. Also found Prix st Georges fitted him well too. I use Prix St George now on wide Anglo.

[Kirsti]

Hey Kirsti

Could you compare it to another type of saddle for me? They look pretty nice, and they are a nice price too :p

My coach noticed the difference in my position straight away, I was riding in an OLD wintec Pro, before the easy change gulle system was brought out.

I was also interested in the Prestige Hippos and Top, but neither of these can anywhere ner close to fitting my very chort backed horse. I have had it for just over a week now, an am happy to say, I had no marks on my white joddies after a comp, as I would have after riding in a leather saddle.

I also used to ride in a Trainers Jessica and I found that that made me slouch a bit in the upper body, which I'm glad to say doesn't happen anymore.

The Thorowgood also has the adjustable kneeblocks in 2 sizes. I would reccommend it to any dressage owner on a budget :)

[mig]

Thanks for your info Kirsti. Might make some phone calls on that tomorrow. THose prices warrant investigation :p

[enchanted_equine]

Hi, have you seen the new synthetic keiffer genf dressage saddles? my horse (quite short but measures 17hh due to giant wither) rides under it very freely, and its clear of his shoudler and backbone. they are only around the $1500 mark and are very similar to the Keiffer Wein (one of my all time favvies!) other wise why dontyou get a horseland saddle fitter out to him? you can tell him your budget and he will bring all the saddles within the budget and you can ride in them all as a tester.

i have an isabell as well but i love it and would never let it go. I am hoping to save my $$$$$$$ as i REALLY want one of those bates innovva's! and they fit my TB like a dream!