RIBBY AGED "I THINK I AM A STALLION ARAB"

[Sue Han]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep weight on my son's old retired dressage horse (purebred arab Santarabia Sef and yes I do tend to keep horses until they drop - had many offers from pony club kids when my son stopped riding but Sef is part of the family). He is now 26 and since we have moved to our new property he has dropped weight and no matter how much I feed him (worm him etc) his ribs are still showing although he has a rather large stomach underneath the ribs.

I am feeding him three scoops of calm performer and 1 scoop of copra meal plus a large biscuit of hay morning and night and he is on grass (although I am starting to wonder about the quality of the grass).

Is it something I just have to accept at his age or have other people had success with keeping weight on aged horses.:question:

[ann]

What about his teeth? Have you had them checked lately?

FWIW, I've found Arabians, especially those with endurance bloodlines, tend to become somewhat angular with age. You might find one of the feeds designed especially for older horses more effective than what you are currently feeding as a supplement to the grass.

A worm check of his manure from a vet might also help, just to be sure your worming program is appropriate. 26 isn't all that old, and I have two horses, both with predominantly Arabian blood and both older than yours, who are blooming on grass only at the moment.

A comprehensive check by a vet will cost you a bit of money, but could save you a lot in feed in the long run.

[velvet]

We own an arab stallion he is 15- he who likes to run/walk the fences is very difficult to keep weight on. He doesnt look too bad at the moment, and we are currently feeding him
1 scoop of calm performer pellets
3 scoops of oaten/lucern chaff mix
1 scoop of rice pollard
and seaweed meel and dollormite.
and he get a very large heap of good quality oaten/ natural lucern hay (we feed from large square bales so cant tell how many small biscuits that would be- probably about 3 or 4)
He has pretty much no grass though- unfortunately we live in a very dry area.
When we first bought him we tried gumnuts which are designed for older horses- but he just sifted them out of his feed and left them in the bottow of the bin.
Not sure if this helps, I think different feeds work for different horses anyway! - could be worth trying rice pollard- its very fattening- or soyabean meal we have fed that to fatten horses as well.
Good luck!

[SharynH]

Hi Sue, like Ann I have also had a number of aged arabians, including two mares that lived until they were well into their thirties. When any of our get along in years, we usually feed whatever will keep weight on. The 2 old mares in their final years were just fed wet pony pellets - we stopped feeding them lucerne as their teeth were pretty much gone. We decided that any side effects were irrellevant.
I would definately get their teeth checked and adjust the diet to suit. Does he really need Calm performer? Perhaps something with more fat and protein would be better. Also we found that as soon as the nights starting getting just a little cooler, we had to increase their feed and also rug them up, as their circulation was not too good either. In the very end one of the mares dropped weight very quickly and never regained it, and the vet just said that all her systems etc were failing slowly. But she was about 34 then. Quite often too, a lot of arabians are actually easier to keep fat than other breeds.
good luck Sue, definately get the teeth done and maybe discuss him with a (practical) vet. Sharyn

[Sue Han]

Thanks eveyone for your advice.

Yes, Ann he is about due to get his teeth done and am organising to have this done

Sef was in pretty good condition up until the summer rains and flies which attacked him mercilessly (I went through a jar of Potties White Ointment in less than a week thickly covering his legs to try and keep the flies away to no avail - not to mention many cans of aerogard).

He lost weight very quickly and I though I would be able to get it back on pretty quickly but it hasn't worked that way.

I feed him Calm Performer because that is also what his 3 year old Irish Sport Horse paddock mate gets (another story in itself - he snapped his extensor tendon when he got caught in a fence (no respect for fences whatsoever) and exposed the bone and was just starting to look really good - not showing any lameness on the flat when I heard him hooning when I came home from work in the dark a couple of weeks ago and now his fetlock is about twice the size and not looking like coming down anytime soon).

I have been thinking about trying Gumnuts - perhaps if I didn't include any other feed in the bucket he would eat it - he is a bit of a fussy eater though - no grassy hay thanks only lucerne.

I have also been wondering about Equi Jewell?? or maybe even going back to the old mill run which I haven't used for years. I am note sure about straight pollard though, is it an old wive's tale that it is bad for horses????

[ann]

Sef was in pretty good condition up until the summer rains and flies which attacked him mercilessly (I went through a jar of Potties White Ointment in less than a week thickly covering his legs to try and keep the flies away to no avail - not to mention many cans of aerogard).We had the same problems with our horses this summer, but put them onto Brute, which is systemic. It took about 10-12 days to show much benefit, during which time we used some Permoxin on them. But since then, they have had no signs of insect bites at all. We're still doing them weekly because of the mosquitoes, but hope to be able to stop when the current bottle has finished.

When I bought my first bottle of Brute, it was near its expiry date, and it took a lot of phone calls to find even that one. But since then, it appears everyone is using it, because the place we buy it say they have had a rush on it.

[Kelly Low]

Hi Sue,
I have had great success with the Pat Colby diet on my daughters aged pony. He has to be about 28-29 (we only know as he was my sisters pony as a child and she is now 36) He had been lent out to another child and was a bag of bones when we got him back. He is now as fat as a fool and still being ridden by my two daughters. I know a lot of people are very sceptial about Pat Colby diet but I have had a good success rate with it. The book, NAtural Horse Care by Pat Colby is fairly readily available in book stores. If you want to PM me to find out what I did feel free. Just a word of warning. Although Pat says to ring her at any time regarding anything in the book, she can be an absolute pain to talk to on the phone especially if you have not had your soil tested by her soil test person. Have had great success regardless.
Kelly

[Sue Han]

I have never seen flies attack another horse the way they attacked Sef's legs this year, hence the thick layer of Potties, one because of the sores they left and two to try and keep them off his legs (I think I will need to try and find those paddock socks for next year).

We have tried a couple of the pour on treatments on Sef but because his skin is so sensitive his skin used to peel (is this what Brute is?).

But I think we will have to try again. I am not sure what Permoxin is but will look into it.

I always have cans of aerogard in the stable because that is what I spray my horse with when I ride him and there are flies about. Makes for a much more pleasant ride. I have found it works just as well as any horse fly spray repellent I have bought.

[Madeline]

I kept a horse in a paddock that seemed to be full of bities and I was given a receipe for a mix of Zincoxide ( get it at Chemist) Sorbelene ( 1 Litre available at most supermarkets) and Deet ( get 100ml tube Bushmans gel at Chemist) mix together and smear on horses legs from at least knee down - they look like English Chanel swimmers or eventers. The gooey mix apparently bogs up the mouth pieces of the little bugs who need a feed of blood to breed so they die childless and the problem goes away. Mowing the grass will help as well. The longer the grass the higher the goo needs to go.
It worked a treat and is cheap.
I was also was put on to A Bunnings product - 'Brunnings Ant and termite ' Permethrin it is the same chemical and solvent as Brute but a fraction of the cost. A couple of drops in a bucket of water and sponge all over as a final rinse or on dry coats for better stickability - seems to work well also.

[SharynH]

Another good home remedy that I have been using, especially on legs that end up all sored and bumpy and fly attacked - is a mix of sulpha and lard. Yep, plain old lard. It sticks on really well and also keeps everything away. Our pony used to get it really badly on her legs, we also found that it was worse when she was out of work. when she was in work the sweat and hosing kept it pretty good.

[gIlBeRt]

I have had a old part arab who was in his 20's and we used to feed him gumnuts. There is also another one i think stablemaster make called senior and there is a hygain one aswell. IMHO i love Hygain feeds but they are a little dear...I hope it works out for you!!!:)

[ann]

I have never seen flies attack another horse the way they attacked Sef's legs this year, hence the thick layer of Potties, one because of the sores they left and two to try and keep them off his legs (I think I will need to try and find those paddock socks for next year).

We have tried a couple of the pour on treatments on Sef but because his skin is so sensitive his skin used to peel (is this what Brute is?).Nope. It's one that you pour onto special mitts that you then wipe over the legs and under the jaw and other places where the insects attack. We had no reactions at all from the horses, two of which have very sensitive skin.

But I think we will have to try again. I am not sure what Permoxin is but will look into it.Permoxin has the same active ingredient as Brute, but can be used more often.

I always have cans of aerogard in the stable because that is what I spray my horse with when I ride him and there are flies about. Makes for a much more pleasant ride. I have found it works just as well as any horse fly spray repellent I have bought.Aerogard is fine for short-term protection, but the systemic insecticides last for a week.

We missed one week this season, and the little blood spots reappeared on the horses' legs, and two of them started rubbing again.

Ann

[lucy]

In regards to the pollard I wouldn't feed it to a horse, I find rice bran really good with all mine it,s high in fats and protein I also find barley good for weight gain (with an older horse you might want to use an extruded version for ease of digestion.Look into using oils as part of the feed to reduce bulk yet add the fat you want him to gain there are a few to choose from. If you up the calories and he doesn't gain the weight there must be an underlying issue that needs further investigation.Brute is an excellant repellant and easy to use (a little xy if you have a lot of paddocked horses)But after a year in Nth QLD with a large array of biting nasties all year round I highly recommend it! Is he rugged ? Theres that old saying -"an extra rug is as good as an extra feed"(but I'm from England) Good Luck

[Zephyr]

Hi Sue. Everyone's dropped you some great feeding suggestions, and having teeth examined and a worm count done on his faeces (don't just worm and expect its working) are all great ideas. Someone suggested feeding chaff instead of hay, which is correct in older horses - its easier for them to chew with their reduced teeth and also easier for them to digest.

Here's a couple of other suggestions that might be worth checking out:
Chronic inflammation or chronic disease - these horses are often inappetant, may have a fever or increased HR/RR, be dehydrated and have some changes on a blood test.

Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) or chronic diarrhoea. Obviously, his stools would be really loose, and his protein can be low on blood tests. Horses that have inflammation in their small bowel, though, will often not show any signs of diarrhoea because all the excess fluid is massively resorped in the large intestine.

Chronic liver failure - weight loss, inappetance, behavioural changes, sometimes colic-y signs, oedema of the skin under their belly (feels sort-of fluidy), sometimes skin lesions (itchies and scabs, usually in white areas - but lots of Qld horses have these due to other reasons), sometimes increased drinking and urinating, sometimes yellow-ish mucous membranes. Fever if its a liver infection rather than failure. Diagnosed on blood test.
Horses with bile duct obstructions show liver-y signs, plus mild intermittent colic.

Chronic renal failure. Increased drinking and urinating is the main feature, as well as inappetance. easily picked up on blood test.

If your horse is bright and happy, with a good appetite, then he probably is just deficient in calories, either because he's not taking enough in (which can include teeth) or he's not absorbing them (parasites, bowel disease etc).

Good luck! I agree with the increasing oil comment - its all fat and REALLY easily digestible, as well as not contributing to the bulk of the feed so you can add more calories there too. Just start it slowly, otherwise don't stand behind him...

[Sue Han]

The number of rugs Sef goes through from rubbing on trees (he suffered from Queensland Itch at our property in Gladstone, but not when he was on a property closer to the sea and mud flats which I thought would have been worse with the sand flies etc), if Brute works and doesn't make his skin peel, it is worth the expense. We have tried the natural remedies you see advertised and various other things over the years (some worked but made his skin peel, some really had little or no effect - I actually found Sea Mineral's cream and spray combined worked but this is a very expensive exercise considering the size of a jar of sea minerals and we did have to resort to cortisone injections at times) so it would be good to find something that would keep the flies and any signs of Qld Itch away without the side effects.

I might try the rice bran - I am currently feeding copra meal to all 3 of mine as this wa recommended to me and I keep upping the quantity Sef is getting but it doesn't seem to be making any difference.

I think I will also try gumnuts

[Sue Han]

Hi Anita

He is grey (well very white actually!).

He hasn't lost his appetite at all although he does look very tucked up at times.

When you say oil content - do you mean liquid oil and if so what type would you recommend (so many different oils)?

[Zephyr]

Yeah, definately different types with different expense. I did mean liquid oil, because it will increase the calories without reducing the bulk. Some feeds are very high in oil, also, such as copra and some of the rice-bran formulas.

I feed my horses a really great oil made by Equitec called Top Torque, but most companies produce oils. I've found a few to be quite rancid! The natural oil they've found to be in the best balance for horses is Canola Oil. My local produce (Rosewood) sell, I think about 20 or 30L of canola oil for $30, probably the best priced of anywhere.

If his appetite is a little off it wouldn't hurt to have him blood tested. At least it might give you piece of mind that there's nothing else going on with him? The other thing with greys that I should mention is grey horse melanoma. Its not a malignant disease like in humans and dogs, but they can grow to quite reasonable proportions in the abdomen and reduce the diameter of the gut and reduce absorption. Does he have tumours under his dock or on his prepuce (willy house ;) )? Even if he does, it doesn't mean thats what it is. Most aged greys have melanomas somewhere, and they tend not to cause a problem.

[Sue Han]

I was going to Sprengers today to get some hay, might go to Rosewood instead. Which end of town is the produce store and do you knowwhat time they close on Saturdays?

[Sue Han]

Hi Kelly

I was given a copy of Pat's book years ago, will have to see if I can find it. If I remember correctly some of the controversy was about introducing copper into the diet??

[Zephyr]

They close midday on Saturday. Its actually the Price Produce, not the Rosewood produce. They are at the train station end of the street, but around the corner on the road running parallel to the main street. The one opposite the train station is Rosewood produce, I don't think they sell the canola oil at such a good price. Just be warned, Price Produce don't do eftpos, they say thats why they can afford to keep their prices so low (they are heaps cheaper than everywhere else)

[Sue Han]

Good to know, as I usually don't have any cash on me!

[moo]

Sue
I have an arabian gelding well into his 30's. I have owned him since he was 3yo, so know him pretty well. He got to the age of about 24, and dropped a lot of weight. He was just out in the paddock at the time. He'd been wormed had teeth done etc.

We started feeding him By Pro (by products from sanitarium - v fattening) and he put on weight. He started being ridden and competing again, did his first ODE when he was 27yo, then he started dropping weight again, coat dulled off and his eyes weren't bright.

We were worried about him, then heard of this dentist who uses power tools. He spent about an hour and a half on him, took ALL of his teeth out, he had 4 abscessed teeth which almost fell out, and v loose rocky teeth (his mouth stunk). He had blood poisoning from the infections, and the scary thing is, a normal dentist had seen him prior to this!

Anyway, he put weight back on, coat is shiny and eyes bright. He still looks well, but we now feed him soup. He has either gumnuts or breeda, soaked till it is soft, 3 dippers morning and 3 at night.

He cant eat hay, just sucks on it and spits it out in balls. He had colic only a few months ago, we'd given him chaff for dinner one night, and he couldnt chew it but swallowed it anyway. Once he passed manure, it was all this chaff (unchewed) and not much else, needless to say he doesnt have chaff anymore!

He also feels the cold, he is always rugged up well in winter or he will drop weight. He is bordering on chubby at the moment!
Hope this helps. Good luck with him